Interested Potential Customer with Questions

[liam.nb]

Hello,

I am interested in purchasing the 5213 module and very impressed by the capabilities, the 32-bit processor, the 40-pin module and the price. I started Microcontrollers with the Basic-Stamp, then quickly moved to Picaxe, then to Zbasic (zbasic.net) for the floating point capability and excellent compiler. Now I'm ready to move on to 32-bit devices and the extra RAM and FLASH. Questions...

* Does the C/C++ compiler support double precision floating point math?
* How does the 5213 handle programs? Does it have an internal bootloader that interprets programs (VM method) or does the C/C++ compiler directly download assembly code (Native method)?
* Does the 5213 module require the Development Board to receive programs?
* How much does the module weigh?

Thank you.

Liam

[rnixon]

Hello,

Just wanted to make sure you understand this is a customer forum, and it might be a good idea to send these same questions to NetBurner sales. I believe the compiler does support double floats.

[liam.nb]

Thanks for the help on the double precision question. Are you a Netburner representative? If so, I would think potential customers are equally as important as current customers. Sales is the last place for technical questions. Just so you know, I think the MOD5213 is an excellent microcontroller, but I must confess I'm considering these other 32-bit modules:

http://leaflabs.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... ni-top.jpg
http://leaflabs.com/devices/maple/
http://mbed.org
http://coridiumcorp.com/PROplus.php
http://www.tinyclr.com/downloads/Panda/ ... _Panda.pdf
http://www.netduino.com/netduinoplus/specs.htm

A huge consideration beyond capability and cost is the quality of the community forum. These are effective places to learn and help others. Why is the MOD5213 the best 32-bit microcontroller? Thank you.

[tod]

Strange, I posted a response to this yesterday but today I don't see it. Since it appears to never have gotten posted I'll repeat myself. First I mentioned what rnixon (who is not a company representative, nor am I) said and that is that this forum is mostly community based. A few engineers from NetBurner do answer the tougher technical questions when the community is unable to do so. When you purchase a development board I believe you get a year of support, so while I'm sure they like it if you try to get an answer here, you can always ask them directly. In the past I have found the tech support from NetBurner to be excellent (ask one question at a time). I have also found that with NetBurner you can send your type of technical questions to sales and get a good answer. (Although this week I imagine you'll have to wait until at least Monday to get a response).

The development environment for the NetBurner is largely based on open source code projects. Eclipse is the IDE and the GNU C++ compiler is used. NB customizes a version of Eclipse to make it easier to get started but they also write all their customizations as plug-ins so you can use a standard version of Eclipse (the Ganymede and Galileo releases work best). You'll find the C++ compiler excellent and very standards compliant and there is support for 8 byte doubles (as well as for Templates and the STL). This is one of the things I REALLY LIKE about NetBurner. I end up adding plug ins and modifications to support Javascript, HTML, CSS, Subversion, Mylyn, lint and project locker. I hate having to learn a new IDE for every embedded project so I find it very helpful when companies like NB use Eclipse.

The other great thing about NB is you don't have to code everything from scratch. They provide a TCP/IP stack and example programs to show you how to use it. They have other classes that support other low level functions on the boards. There are various examples and application notes and of course this forum. The manuals are well written and helpful. There is also a community supported wiki (you might want to check out at least the FAQ section),

I don't have specific experience with the 5213, mostly I use the 5282, 5270 and 5272 modules (I like lots of RAM and FLASH). The boards don't run a hardware abstraction layer so the executable portion of your code is loaded as a binary executable (machine code). If you wanted a scripting language running on the NB you could probably easily find a FICL implementation that would work.

Since the boards I use support a built-in web server the downloaded image also contains a compressed version of the web site (html, css, javascript, jpegs, etc). You can download to these boards directly but they include the Ethernet connector so I would suspect the 5213 only needs the desired interface.

I think you will find the people on this forum very helpful and polite for both software and hardware questions. There isn't a ton of bandwidth so it's a pretty easy forum to keep tabs on.

And finally, of course being an existing customer I disagree that potential customers are as valuable as existing customers.

[liam.nb]

I appreciate your responses. So far I'm impressed with this forum, both the website architecture and the people - especially during the Thanksgiving holiday. I suppose the forum is a good way to take a break from the in-laws. Anyway, I see now that the compiler supports double precision. I need this to implement a Kalman filter for my gbot90 project (a ground bot that balances vertically on two wheels):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxx14Xe2iNg

The 12-bit ADC is also very important. Since the MOD5213 is designed to accept compiled machine code, this means programs run very fast. Does this also mean I can purchase my own "blank" ColdFire chips and upload machine code (for hobby purposes of course)?

Thank you.

[v8dave]

Hi Liam,

If you always use Netburner hardware then you don't pay any license fee. Just the initial cost of the development system and then as many modules as you want.

If you want to do your own hardware then they charge a license fee and this is way beyond hobby cost at around $30,000. They can also do your hardware design for you but again, this is outwith hobby costs.

You are better off just using the modules. I have 2 projects I did with them (MOD5234) and they are so nice to work with. The compiler with the real time OS is a breeze to use and I am sure for your application it will work perfectly with it.

The folks on this forum are very welcoming and helpful and if you have any issues other than directly related to Netburner, then they are great to ask questions to.

Hope you can join us and look forward to seeing your Netburner powered robot!

Dave...

[cdubats]

Usually a lurker, have to weigh in on several topics related to "why NetBurner?"
1. They are just the right development model for limited production: put all the
tricky stuff on a small inexpensive module with a robust header and let the user
add what s/he needs. Embedded controllers typically sit alone in the dark under
adverse conditions - a browser based interface lets you move tons of stuff off
the control and to anywhere else in the world.
2. Complete: NetBurner promised "networking in one day" and delivered. This is
the most modest platform that really supports everything you want to do. If a
simple web page with some buttons and checkboxes is all you need, you're good,
but if you add a jquery library to do some plotting of data on the client side or
something tricky like that, you find that it works.
3. The OS model of modules that link in with your app and build an image that
loads loads from flash to RAM is right for embedded control. People that scale
their platform up to support embedded linux or embedded XP make it way to
expensive, complex, and unreliable.
4. Third party vendor support - find another module that Realtime Automation
can have talking to a CompactLogix PLC and a Powermonitor 3000 in a few days.

I've seen people say the modules or the development system need to be cheaper.
IMO, development cost and reliability are the drivers. By the time you waste a week
of development time, your $25 hardware savings are gone for the entire product
life cycle. FreeScale makes the right controller options and NetBurner uses them right.

[liam.nb]

This 5213 module sounds very attractive. I'm surprised its not mentioned in the Nuts & Volts advertisement along with the other Netburner items. Anyway, my issue now is the development kit. For practical reasons, I prefer to keep the microcontroller inside my robot project and run a serial cable (or USB) to it from a PC to download program updates. Is it possible to do this with the MOD5213 device by running jumper cables from the development kit? If so, which pins need to be linked? Is it possible to just use the 5213-edge JTAG pins? Thank you.

[lgitlitz]

The standard method of updating the MOD5213 is via the debug serial port. This must be enabled in your UserMain() initialization by calling the function EnableSerialUpdate();. The way this works is the PC will send two escape chars to this serial port, by default 0xFC. The application will then go into program mode and a binary version of the application is sent on the serial port. You want to be careful that you only share this serial port with a device that will not send these chars. Sharing with any ascii only device is OK.
The edge connector pins are routed to the BDM signals for the processor. Two of these pins are also routed to UART0. Any Coldfire BDM should be able to program flash through these pins though it is not directly supported by NetBurner.

-Larry

[liam.nb]

Thanks for your response. To be clear, are you saying I can download programs from Netburner's C/C++ compiler to the MOD5213 directly, without the need for the development board (MOD-DEV-40)? Thanks.